On facebook I’m carrying a discussion with a good friend of mine (It’s really awkward debating with such a close friend FYI). I know I hate when people write “intros” to posts, I do too…but I always seem to. I’m not sure why. Anywho–I’m trying to figure out how to put into “words” everything we’re discussing…
Basically it started out on the subject of hell. He’s a fundamental Christian that believes in the basic concept of hell. Fine and dandy for him, I just don’t accept that part. But what this conversation has slowly turned into is basically the subject of humans being sinners and born of sin.
May I just post a few quotes? Maybe this will make this simpler on me. (Hang in there…I’d suggest you read all of this….no matter how long winded it gets!!)
And if it is true. (In reference to his view of hell) God’s a punk. Now I know Christ came and thats all cool and dandy…I know that. But god set us up for that failure. He made “adam and eve” KNOWING they were going to sin.
Come on bro..
“Hope, I’m confused…God made Adam and Eve with a free will. Yes, that means that He knew that they were going to sin…but why does that make Him a punk? I think that God would have a punk if He wouldn’t have made provision for atonement of sins (animal sacrifice…the shedding of innocent blood). When Christ was crucified, innocent blood was shed for the last time. In other words, our sins have been atoned for…all we have to do is accept it.
To me, that doesn’t scream “punk”, it screams “SAVIOR”!
Please don’t tell me that God wants people to go to Hell. Pick five of your closest friends and choose which two go to Heaven and which three go to Hell. You can’t do it! Why do we assume that God can?”
Why does that make him a punk? Shawn. Okay, think of it like this.
Say you give your kid a toy with a smile on your face, but then when they play with it you yell at them and scold them harshly for it. How is that any different?
God gave us the gift of life and I thank him for that. But he also designed us with sin basically built into our DNA as human nature. He predestined us to mess up. He also gave us the free will to choose. He KNEW there was going to be people that weren’t going to except him. So what then did he so called “create”? This thing called hell that is supposed to torture folks for not believing in him and choosing this salvation “plan”. And all the other folks that buy into it get this fantastic thing that is 100% the opposite of hell.
He gave us sin, he gave us choice, and that constitutes for hell.
Hope, if God was really trying to “punk” people, then why allow for the absolution of sins through animal sacrifice, and then absolute forgiveness of sins by the death of Jesus? It doesn’t add up.
A loving God would not require anyone to love Him…that isn’t love, but mind-control.
I must disagree also on the sin component of our DNA. We are made in the image of God…with knowledge of good and evil. The choice to do evil (made by Adam and Eve) allowed sin to enter into our soul. The sin nature passes from the father to his children. That is why Jesus was born of a virgin (don’t even give me any garbage about God raping a virgin…it’s bunk).
Anyway, the toy analogy falls short, because it displays an intent to yell and confuse and embitter. God’s intent was to have a relationship with us, and He gave us the ability to do so. Knowing we would fail, He planned for our redemption. The appropriateness of the descriptor of punk is fading rapidly…
Yes, he set plan of salvation. But you’re looking at it in an opposite of me. I’m look at it through the eyes of an atheist, or a person that doubts god. If you can at least for a moment try and yourself into my eyes, my thoughts. Understand that you as a Christian are blessed with the gift of knowing (well, believing) that you will be going to heaven because of your salvation in Christ.
Now through my eyes, I do not know this. I sin a daily basis with nothing to back me up. I’m unwilling to accept Christ because of my doubts. Knowing this, I have had many Christians, friends, and even family (the very few religious ones in my family…) show concern about me going to hell. They’ve described hell in terrible ways that I dont even want to think about. But it hasn’t helpeed me any. I’m too proud to just say “oh no! I’m gonna die someday…I better go and do something about that!”
I don’t believe in getting saved out of fear. So what am I supposed to do in this situation? I’m stuck. Look at it through my eyes, the fear…the worry, the unknown. But you can’t accept something just because you’re scared. That’s not right at all. But that’s really what a lot of people do.
I didn’t plan on giving you bunk about raping a virgin, I know it’s bunk. Don’t underestimate me, ok? Yes, we’re made in the image of god. But your forgetting something. We ARE born as sinners. It’s Biblical and don’t tell me that is not. Is god a sinner? No. I think your kind of twisting the concept of being made in the image of god.
I think that pretty much sums it all up. I don’t think anymore needs to be said.
What do you guys think? Specifically, what do you think it means to be made in the image of God?